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	<title>Comments on: [Petition] ASL at BU</title>
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	<link>http://semantics-online.org/2004/04/petition-asl-at-bu</link>
	<description>A weblog on semantics, pragmatics, philosophy of language, and intersections thereof</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: Tony Marmo</title>
		<link>http://semantics-online.org/2004/04/petition-asl-at-bu#comment-89</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Marmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2004 00:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.semantics-online.org/wp/uncategorized/2004/04/petition-asl-at-bu#comment-89</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yeas, that is precisely the point.
In my hometown there are two or three schools
that have some structure to include deaf students.
In one of them the tradition is that deaf students must
learn to speak Portuguese and to read the lips. They
advise against teaching them any Sign language, and
often ask the students not to use it.
Well, in consequence of such directive, deaf students
in the aforementioned school have naturally created 
their own Sign Language among themselves
and have used it from the start. Each new student learns
it just by interaction with the other older classmates.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Even thus, the school has not changed its position
to admit the use of both languages. And not many
teachers informally ask students to teach them their Sign 
language. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Of course, the Sign language they themselves
created within school environment is now being used in
the rest of the town, in all aspects of the social life of the
deaf population. I know some hearers who have learned it
in their teens just by playing games with deaf neighbours.
On the other hand, there also parents who do not like their
deaf children to use Sign languages and politicians, who
talk about policies for the deaf population, but retain
many prejudices and myths respecting Sign languages.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeas, that is precisely the point.<br />
In my hometown there are two or three schools<br />
that have some structure to include deaf students.<br />
In one of them the tradition is that deaf students must<br />
learn to speak Portuguese and to read the lips. They<br />
advise against teaching them any Sign language, and<br />
often ask the students not to use it.<br />
Well, in consequence of such directive, deaf students<br />
in the aforementioned school have naturally created<br />
their own Sign Language among themselves<br />
and have used it from the start. Each new student learns<br />
it just by interaction with the other older classmates.</p>
<p>Even thus, the school has not changed its position<br />
to admit the use of both languages. And not many<br />
teachers informally ask students to teach them their Sign<br />
language. </p>
<p>Of course, the Sign language they themselves<br />
created within school environment is now being used in<br />
the rest of the town, in all aspects of the social life of the<br />
deaf population. I know some hearers who have learned it<br />
in their teens just by playing games with deaf neighbours.<br />
On the other hand, there also parents who do not like their<br />
deaf children to use Sign languages and politicians, who<br />
talk about policies for the deaf population, but retain<br />
many prejudices and myths respecting Sign languages.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jan Anderssen</title>
		<link>http://semantics-online.org/2004/04/petition-asl-at-bu#comment-88</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan Anderssen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.semantics-online.org/wp/uncategorized/2004/04/petition-asl-at-bu#comment-88</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;that makes your point more clear. if you're talking about comparing these two cases in order to figure out whether there is a common pattern that will help us figure out why people like to stick to their believes, and maybe in consequence leads to a better way of presenting what we believe in, then i'm all with you. i think that's very important.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that makes your point more clear. if you&#8217;re talking about comparing these two cases in order to figure out whether there is a common pattern that will help us figure out why people like to stick to their believes, and maybe in consequence leads to a better way of presenting what we believe in, then i&#8217;m all with you. i think that&#8217;s very important.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tony Marmo</title>
		<link>http://semantics-online.org/2004/04/petition-asl-at-bu#comment-87</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Marmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Apr 2004 08:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.semantics-online.org/wp/uncategorized/2004/04/petition-asl-at-bu#comment-87</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;PERTINENT INFORMATION&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Standardisation of Sign Languages in Brazil:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Two curious (and failed) attempts to standardise Sign Languages in Brazil came to my mind.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The first attempt was unofficial and informal:
it involved a very small number of persons, who had been exposed to the 
reality of Sign Language communities in the US.
They simply expected Sign Language to be one Universal language and tried
to spread the US Language among both Hearers and Deafs. Sooner many
told them that the Languages used in Brazil were different and that nobody
knew the US Language well to use or teach it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The second is more recent: it is the 'introduction' of a Brazilian Sign Language
into the mass media. That seems to be the language of some larger cities, such
as Sao Paulo and Rio (I am not 100% sure though).
However, many small and middle size Town communities have had their own
Local Languages for years and they find the 'National' Language as strange as
the US one.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In my home town the word for 'father' is the same as 'moustache' and root
 sentences have an SOV order, for instance. 40 Kms from my hometown,
there is another local Sign Language, which is completely different, and the
word for 'father' may be the same as the one for 'beard' and Grammar also
differs.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Consequently, when people watch TV News with someone translating into
the National Language, the vast majority of Sign Language users in places other than Sao Paulo or Rio complain
that they cannot understand anything said by the translator. 
Most Deafs still prefer subtitles or closed caption.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PERTINENT INFORMATION</p>
<p>Standardisation of Sign Languages in Brazil:</p>
<p>Two curious (and failed) attempts to standardise Sign Languages in Brazil came to my mind.</p>
<p>The first attempt was unofficial and informal:<br />
it involved a very small number of persons, who had been exposed to the<br />
reality of Sign Language communities in the US.<br />
They simply expected Sign Language to be one Universal language and tried<br />
to spread the US Language among both Hearers and Deafs. Sooner many<br />
told them that the Languages used in Brazil were different and that nobody<br />
knew the US Language well to use or teach it.</p>
<p>The second is more recent: it is the &#8216;introduction&#8217; of a Brazilian Sign Language<br />
into the mass media. That seems to be the language of some larger cities, such<br />
as Sao Paulo and Rio (I am not 100% sure though).<br />
However, many small and middle size Town communities have had their own<br />
Local Languages for years and they find the &#8216;National&#8217; Language as strange as<br />
the US one.</p>
<p>In my home town the word for &#8216;father&#8217; is the same as &#8216;moustache&#8217; and root<br />
 sentences have an SOV order, for instance. 40 Kms from my hometown,<br />
there is another local Sign Language, which is completely different, and the<br />
word for &#8216;father&#8217; may be the same as the one for &#8216;beard&#8217; and Grammar also<br />
differs.</p>
<p>Consequently, when people watch TV News with someone translating into<br />
the National Language, the vast majority of Sign Language users in places other than Sao Paulo or Rio complain<br />
that they cannot understand anything said by the translator.<br />
Most Deafs still prefer subtitles or closed caption.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tony Marmo</title>
		<link>http://semantics-online.org/2004/04/petition-asl-at-bu#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Marmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Apr 2004 07:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.semantics-online.org/wp/uncategorized/2004/04/petition-asl-at-bu#comment-86</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Let me answer two points:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;1- Although Dutch and Icelandic are Germanic languages,
it is certainly a huge mistake to include Dutch among
the Scandinavian Languages. Portuguese, Italian, Spanish
French are all Romance, but it is not only an instance of
ignorance but a huge dis to call Portuguse a 'Hispanic 
Language'.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;2-It is important to compare 'ignorances' and show that
People do not want to revise them. For instance, even when
a Brazilian tells you that Portuguese is not a Hispanic
Language, you found an argument to resist, saying
something like 'well, they both come from Latin'.
So BU CAS does the same: even if you tell them they do not
know certain things, they resist and keep the attitudes.
And, trust me, even being wrong they can give you all
sorts of arguments to maintain their position and not
revise their beliefs. Even if Sign Language users ask them
more consideration, just like when Brazilians ask 'please,
we do not speak Spanish'.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me answer two points:</p>
<p>1- Although Dutch and Icelandic are Germanic languages,<br />
it is certainly a huge mistake to include Dutch among<br />
the Scandinavian Languages. Portuguese, Italian, Spanish<br />
French are all Romance, but it is not only an instance of<br />
ignorance but a huge dis to call Portuguse a &#8216;Hispanic<br />
Language&#8217;.</p>
<p>2-It is important to compare &#8216;ignorances&#8217; and show that<br />
People do not want to revise them. For instance, even when<br />
a Brazilian tells you that Portuguese is not a Hispanic<br />
Language, you found an argument to resist, saying<br />
something like &#8216;well, they both come from Latin&#8217;.<br />
So BU CAS does the same: even if you tell them they do not<br />
know certain things, they resist and keep the attitudes.<br />
And, trust me, even being wrong they can give you all<br />
sorts of arguments to maintain their position and not<br />
revise their beliefs. Even if Sign Language users ask them<br />
more consideration, just like when Brazilians ask &#8216;please,<br />
we do not speak Spanish&#8217;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jan Anderssen</title>
		<link>http://semantics-online.org/2004/04/petition-asl-at-bu#comment-85</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan Anderssen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.semantics-online.org/wp/uncategorized/2004/04/petition-asl-at-bu#comment-85</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;tony, it's certainly ignorant to forget about brazilian portuguese. but i don't think that you should start comparing the degrees of ignorance here. even when one doesn't take into account that spanish and portuguese are both romance languages decending from latin and calls grouping them together a mistake, how would this 'mistake' make it any less important that bu's cas administration appears to show complete ignorance with respect to asl?&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tony, it&#8217;s certainly ignorant to forget about brazilian portuguese. but i don&#8217;t think that you should start comparing the degrees of ignorance here. even when one doesn&#8217;t take into account that spanish and portuguese are both romance languages decending from latin and calls grouping them together a mistake, how would this &#8216;mistake&#8217; make it any less important that bu&#8217;s cas administration appears to show complete ignorance with respect to asl?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tony Marmo</title>
		<link>http://semantics-online.org/2004/04/petition-asl-at-bu#comment-84</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Marmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.semantics-online.org/wp/uncategorized/2004/04/petition-asl-at-bu#comment-84</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, this is not the gravest case of ignorance on foreign
Languages.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The number one ignorance is to think that Spanish is the
language of Brazil, a kind of ignorance Hollywood film
makers seemingly want to perpetuate in every movie
they make about Brazil.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There are in certain Universities (such as the University of 
Edinburgh) a Department strangely called '"Hispanic" 
Languages/Studies Department", which includes 
Portuguese, as if Portuguese speaking Countries were 
Hispanic in any sense.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And to make matters worse, it does not matter how many
times you explain these mistakes, the same minds resist
and do not review their misconceptions.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So, if Boston University made a mistake, it made a very
insignificant one in comparison to others.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, this is not the gravest case of ignorance on foreign<br />
Languages.</p>
<p>The number one ignorance is to think that Spanish is the<br />
language of Brazil, a kind of ignorance Hollywood film<br />
makers seemingly want to perpetuate in every movie<br />
they make about Brazil.</p>
<p>There are in certain Universities (such as the University of<br />
Edinburgh) a Department strangely called &#8216;&#8221;Hispanic&#8221;<br />
Languages/Studies Department&#8221;, which includes<br />
Portuguese, as if Portuguese speaking Countries were<br />
Hispanic in any sense.</p>
<p>And to make matters worse, it does not matter how many<br />
times you explain these mistakes, the same minds resist<br />
and do not review their misconceptions.</p>
<p>So, if Boston University made a mistake, it made a very<br />
insignificant one in comparison to others.</p>
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