Comments on: Schlenker on the Subjunctive

By: Tony Marmo

Tony Marmo — Fri, 02 Jul 2004 06:32:42 +0000

We are having a nice conversation on the English subjunctive issue. I hereby invite you all to come here.

By: Tony Marmo

Tony Marmo — Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:34:53 +0000

So the basic difference in this regard is that, while in Portuguese the restriction on the use of the Subjunctive depends on the verb, in German you have an ‘absolute’ restriction on the Konjunktiv1. But in both cases the Indicative is a possibility. This indicates that the Konjunktiv1 behaves more like the Subjunctive in Portuguese. Of course, to state the contrary on has to appeal to ‘theory-internal’ arguments, as you said.

But, do we really need to reduce the number of moods to only Indicative and Subjunctive?

By: Kai von Fintel

Kai von Fintel — Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:09:22 +0000

No. None of these verbs can take a Konjunktiv I complement if they are 1st person presents:

*Ich denke/ich nehme an/ich sch�tze, da� Maria krank sei.

These need to be indicative:

Ich denke/ich nehme an/ich sch�tze, da� Maria krank ist.

By: Tony Marmo

Tony Marmo — Wed, 16 Jun 2004 04:28:10 +0000

Let me put some examples in Portuguese and then I make my question:

[I] With the Subjunctive

(a) *Acho que a Maria esteja doente. I suppose/ guess that Mary is sick. (b) ?Penso que a Maria esteja doente. (depends on the pragmatic context to be accepted or not) I think that Mary is sick. (c) Acredito que a Maria esteja doente. I believe that Mary is sick.

[II] -Negative root clause + Subjunctive Present

(a) N�o acho que a Maria esteja doente. I do not suppose/ guess that Mary is sick.

The rest is ok too.

[II] With the indicative All versions ok.

In [I] above we see that the acceptability firstly may depend on the verb of the root clause. Would the judgements vary if for instance you changed the examples, using 'zu denken', 'zu sch�tzen', 'zu annehmen' etc? (Sorry, I do not recall the right form to quote German verbs).

By: Kai von Fintel

Kai von Fintel — Wed, 16 Jun 2004 00:35:22 +0000

I agree with the data Philippe reports. The analysis itself is a matter of theory-internal considerations, which I am not prepared to give a verdict on at this time. But he’s right about the facts, and that’s all that a native speaker should be called upon to judge qua native speaker.

By: Tony Marmo

Tony Marmo — Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:10:33 +0000

[1]
I would like to hear from the German native speakers whether they agree or not to the following statements from Schlenker’s paper:

There is a further piece to this puzzle. As noted in Schlenker 2003a and Fabricius-Hansen & Saebo
2004, the Konjunktiv I cannot be used when the thought or assertion is attributed to the speaker at the
time and in the world of utterance (the following is from Schlenker 2003a):

(63) a. *Ich glaube, da� Maria krank sei

I believe that Maria sick is-KONJ1

b. Ich glaubte, da� Maria krank sei

I believed that Maria sick is-KONJ1

�I believed that Maria was sick�

c. Peter glaubt, da� Maria krank sei

Peter believes that Maria sick is-KONJ1

�Peter believes that Maria is sick�

d. Peter glaubte, da� Maria krank sei

Peter believed that Maria sick is-KONJ1

�Peter believes that Maria is sick�

This suggests that the Konjunktiv 1 is -despite its name- an indicative, though with the special
requirement that the Context Set it refers to should not be that of the actual speaker at the time and in the
world of his utterance. We also obtain in this way the observation that the Konjunktiv I cannot occur in
conditionals, since the Context Set which is relevant for conditionals is always that of the speaker at the
time and in the world of utterance.

Do you agree with the indicative analysis of the Konjuctiv 1?

[2]
I have taken the liberty to post a link to this entry in my blog.