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	<title>Comments on: New Philosophy Gourmet Ranking</title>
	<link>http://semantics-online.org/2004/11/new-philosophy-gourmet-ranking</link>
	<description>A weblog on semantics, pragmatics, philosophy of language, and intersections thereof</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 20:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.2</generator>

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		<title>By: Kai von Fintel</title>
		<link>http://semantics-online.org/2004/11/new-philosophy-gourmet-ranking#comment-177</link>
		<author>Kai von Fintel</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://semantics-online.org/2004/11/new-philosophy-gourmet-ranking#comment-177</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is almost as much fun as talking baseball statistics. Almost, but not quite.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Jason is complaining that MIT tilted the scales by listing their semanticists as affiliated faculty, which he thinks had the effect of MIT undeservedly being scored a 4.5 in Philosophy of Language. This put MIT only behind Rutgers and USC, on a par with NYU and UCLA, and ahead of Cornell, Texas, and Michigan.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I would submit that a Philosophy of Language program needs to be assessed at least partly according to its integration with a local linguistics program, in particular with the local semanticists. And I can't imagine that competent judges in the PGR wouldn't do that, no matter whether the program lists their local semanticists as affiliated faculty or not. No competent philosopher of language could possibly ignore the fact that Cornell has Mats Rooth and Dorit Abusch on the faculty, that UCLA has Philippe Schlenker and Daniel Büring, etc. So, I would suggest that these affiliations must already be factored into the scoring. Otherwise, I would question the competence of the judges -- but perhaps that's really Jason's thrust. In any case, MIT certainly did nothing unsavory by listing us as affiliated faculty.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What would my ranking be?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Rutgers 5.0
USC 4.5
MIT 4.5
UCLA 4.5
Cornell 4.5
NYU 4.0
Texas 3.5
Michigan 3.5&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In these scores, I'm taking into account what I know about philosophy of language at those institutions but also what I know about the semantics programs and their interaction with philosophy.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Again, this is just like talking about baseball. Don't take any of this too seriously. All of these are great places to do serious research. Any of them (with the exception of Rutgers, it must be lonely at the top, Jason) could move up easily with one or two inspired hires (philosophers of language in the case of MIT, and semanticists in the case of Michigan, for example).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Red Sox or Yankees? Don't ask me. You know the answer.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is almost as much fun as talking baseball statistics. Almost, but not quite.</p>
<p>Jason is complaining that MIT tilted the scales by listing their semanticists as affiliated faculty, which he thinks had the effect of MIT undeservedly being scored a 4.5 in Philosophy of Language. This put MIT only behind Rutgers and USC, on a par with NYU and UCLA, and ahead of Cornell, Texas, and Michigan.</p>
<p>I would submit that a Philosophy of Language program needs to be assessed at least partly according to its integration with a local linguistics program, in particular with the local semanticists. And I can&#8217;t imagine that competent judges in the PGR wouldn&#8217;t do that, no matter whether the program lists their local semanticists as affiliated faculty or not. No competent philosopher of language could possibly ignore the fact that Cornell has Mats Rooth and Dorit Abusch on the faculty, that UCLA has Philippe Schlenker and Daniel Büring, etc. So, I would suggest that these affiliations must already be factored into the scoring. Otherwise, I would question the competence of the judges &#8212; but perhaps that&#8217;s really Jason&#8217;s thrust. In any case, MIT certainly did nothing unsavory by listing us as affiliated faculty.</p>
<p>What would my ranking be?</p>
<p>Rutgers 5.0<br />
USC 4.5<br />
MIT 4.5<br />
UCLA 4.5<br />
Cornell 4.5<br />
NYU 4.0<br />
Texas 3.5<br />
Michigan 3.5</p>
<p>In these scores, I&#8217;m taking into account what I know about philosophy of language at those institutions but also what I know about the semantics programs and their interaction with philosophy.</p>
<p>Again, this is just like talking about baseball. Don&#8217;t take any of this too seriously. All of these are great places to do serious research. Any of them (with the exception of Rutgers, it must be lonely at the top, Jason) could move up easily with one or two inspired hires (philosophers of language in the case of MIT, and semanticists in the case of Michigan, for example).</p>
<p>Red Sox or Yankees? Don&#8217;t ask me. You know the answer.</p>
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		<title>By: JasonStanley</title>
		<link>http://semantics-online.org/2004/11/new-philosophy-gourmet-ranking#comment-176</link>
		<author>JasonStanley</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Nov 2004 18:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://semantics-online.org/2004/11/new-philosophy-gourmet-ranking#comment-176</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Tony,
   Of course, Glanzberg worked with the linguists. If he was now at MIT, or someone like him, of course they would deserve to be in group they now are. But he isn't -- he teaches at UC Davis, and MIT hasn't replaced him with a philosopher of language. The idea that the MIT philosophy department, judged as a philosophy department for working on the philosophy of language, ranks ahead of Cornell (Graff, Szabo, Weatherson), Texas (Asher, Bealer, Dever), or Michigan (Thomason, Ludlow, Gillies) just seems incorrect to me, and to many linguistically-oriented philosophers of language I know. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I doubt Kai is disagreeing with me -- even he says that MIT needs one or two philosophers of language to be on the top rank. But they are &lt;em&gt;now&lt;/em&gt; listed on the top rank, and that is my objection -- I don't see how they could have gotten there except by listing Kai, Irene, and Danny as affiliate faculty members.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Of course, MIT was once perhaps the world's foremost training ground for philosophers of language, and Stalnaker, who advised all of us, is still on the faculty. All of us who graduated from that institution count Irene as one of our formative influences (and those who came after me, count Kai as well). So perhaps it's perfectly legitimate to use Irene and Kai and Danny (who was two years behind me, so I don't count him as one of my formative influences!) in this regard. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But the fact is that the philosophy department has taken deliberate steps to move away from the philosophy of language, and re-establish itself as a department of metaphysics. They have not bothered to replace philosophers of language who have left (Higgy, Glanzberg, Horwich, Cartwright), and Stalnaker works less and less in this area. Other departments also with excellent linguistics departments have stepped up in their place with deliberate efforts to recruit philosophers of language who work with linguists (Rutgers, USC, Cornell). I just don't see how it's interesting or helpful for anyone to deny that.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony,<br />
   Of course, Glanzberg worked with the linguists. If he was now at MIT, or someone like him, of course they would deserve to be in group they now are. But he isn&#8217;t &#8212; he teaches at UC Davis, and MIT hasn&#8217;t replaced him with a philosopher of language. The idea that the MIT philosophy department, judged as a philosophy department for working on the philosophy of language, ranks ahead of Cornell (Graff, Szabo, Weatherson), Texas (Asher, Bealer, Dever), or Michigan (Thomason, Ludlow, Gillies) just seems incorrect to me, and to many linguistically-oriented philosophers of language I know. </p>
<p>I doubt Kai is disagreeing with me &#8212; even he says that MIT needs one or two philosophers of language to be on the top rank. But they are <em>now</em> listed on the top rank, and that is my objection &#8212; I don&#8217;t see how they could have gotten there except by listing Kai, Irene, and Danny as affiliate faculty members.</p>
<p>Of course, MIT was once perhaps the world&#8217;s foremost training ground for philosophers of language, and Stalnaker, who advised all of us, is still on the faculty. All of us who graduated from that institution count Irene as one of our formative influences (and those who came after me, count Kai as well). So perhaps it&#8217;s perfectly legitimate to use Irene and Kai and Danny (who was two years behind me, so I don&#8217;t count him as one of my formative influences!) in this regard. </p>
<p>But the fact is that the philosophy department has taken deliberate steps to move away from the philosophy of language, and re-establish itself as a department of metaphysics. They have not bothered to replace philosophers of language who have left (Higgy, Glanzberg, Horwich, Cartwright), and Stalnaker works less and less in this area. Other departments also with excellent linguistics departments have stepped up in their place with deliberate efforts to recruit philosophers of language who work with linguists (Rutgers, USC, Cornell). I just don&#8217;t see how it&#8217;s interesting or helpful for anyone to deny that.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Marmo</title>
		<link>http://semantics-online.org/2004/11/new-philosophy-gourmet-ranking#comment-175</link>
		<author>Tony Marmo</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2004 05:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://semantics-online.org/2004/11/new-philosophy-gourmet-ranking#comment-175</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Just to give an extra example in favour of what Kai von Fintel and me think: Glanzberg is his paper on the Liar's paradox quotes many linguists to elaborate his initial ideas. This is just one among the recent evidences of the strong and firm colaboration between &lt;i&gt;the two halves&lt;/i&gt; of the Department.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to give an extra example in favour of what Kai von Fintel and me think: Glanzberg is his paper on the Liar&#8217;s paradox quotes many linguists to elaborate his initial ideas. This is just one among the recent evidences of the strong and firm colaboration between <i>the two halves</i> of the Department.</p>
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		<title>By: Thony</title>
		<link>http://semantics-online.org/2004/11/new-philosophy-gourmet-ranking#comment-174</link>
		<author>Thony</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://semantics-online.org/2004/11/new-philosophy-gourmet-ranking#comment-174</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I have to say I am a little disappointed!  I was hoping for a reply along the lines of "The exploitation wasn't at all clever, for reasons A, B, C, ..."  But you've just given us a serious and reasoned kind of reply.  (sigh....)&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say I am a little disappointed!  I was hoping for a reply along the lines of &#8220;The exploitation wasn&#8217;t at all clever, for reasons A, B, C, &#8230;&#8221;  But you&#8217;ve just given us a serious and reasoned kind of reply.  (sigh&#8230;.)</p>
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		<title>By: Kai von Fintel</title>
		<link>http://semantics-online.org/2004/11/new-philosophy-gourmet-ranking#comment-173</link>
		<author>Kai von Fintel</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://semantics-online.org/2004/11/new-philosophy-gourmet-ranking#comment-173</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don't think that in the case of MIT, it's a clever exploit to list semanticists as affiliated faculty in the philosophy program. We regularly have philosophy grad students in our semantics and pragmatics courses (from the intro level through advanced seminars). We meet with philosophy grad students to talk about their research. We attend philosophy colloquia and participate in the discussions. We are consulted on faculty hires and promotions in areas of philosophy that we have connections to. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If there were no or few such interactions, it would be a ploy to list us, but that's not the way things are.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Having said that, I could easily see philosophy of language being even stronger here through one or two inspired hirings. Then, I would even defend a 5.0 rating for MIT in this area. As things stand now, 4.5 seems right and not something that was achieved through a clever exploit.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think that in the case of MIT, it&#8217;s a clever exploit to list semanticists as affiliated faculty in the philosophy program. We regularly have philosophy grad students in our semantics and pragmatics courses (from the intro level through advanced seminars). We meet with philosophy grad students to talk about their research. We attend philosophy colloquia and participate in the discussions. We are consulted on faculty hires and promotions in areas of philosophy that we have connections to. </p>
<p>If there were no or few such interactions, it would be a ploy to list us, but that&#8217;s not the way things are.</p>
<p>Having said that, I could easily see philosophy of language being even stronger here through one or two inspired hirings. Then, I would even defend a 5.0 rating for MIT in this area. As things stand now, 4.5 seems right and not something that was achieved through a clever exploit.</p>
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		<title>By: Thony</title>
		<link>http://semantics-online.org/2004/11/new-philosophy-gourmet-ranking#comment-172</link>
		<author>Thony</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://semantics-online.org/2004/11/new-philosophy-gourmet-ranking#comment-172</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;"Do I feel cleverly exploited? No. More comments on request."&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;OK, I'll bite.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Do I feel cleverly exploited? No. More comments on request.&#8221;</p>
<p>OK, I&#8217;ll bite.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Marmo</title>
		<link>http://semantics-online.org/2004/11/new-philosophy-gourmet-ranking#comment-171</link>
		<author>Tony Marmo</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://semantics-online.org/2004/11/new-philosophy-gourmet-ranking#comment-171</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I do not want to rank or rerank the aforementioned institutions. It would be easy for me to give all of them an &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;A+&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;. But the last remark by Jason intrigues me in one aspect:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Is there an issue of Philosophy of Language which is not a Semantic issue too or has nothing to do with Semantics? &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Take, for instance, your paper on the modal and quantifier scope relation. It is not difficult to extend it to some philosophical problem of a more general nature. So, if inter-disciplinary coloboration counts, that is an advantage for your Department. But that does not mean that other Departments have not their own advantages too.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not want to rank or rerank the aforementioned institutions. It would be easy for me to give all of them an <b><i>A+</i></b>. But the last remark by Jason intrigues me in one aspect:</p>
<p>Is there an issue of Philosophy of Language which is not a Semantic issue too or has nothing to do with Semantics? </p>
<p>Take, for instance, your paper on the modal and quantifier scope relation. It is not difficult to extend it to some philosophical problem of a more general nature. So, if inter-disciplinary coloboration counts, that is an advantage for your Department. But that does not mean that other Departments have not their own advantages too.</p>
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